All aboard the Rail-Is-The-Only-Answer thread. Unfortunately the article does not reveal how they analyzed public transportation. This is a tricky parameter, however, because public transportation is not free, though surveys like this tend to imply such.

For example, the proposed rail system’s cost estimates from a couple of years ago surpassed $800 million. With only 14,000 riders projected, we’re talking construction costs of more than $57,000 per rider. Not even the federal government is comfortable spending that much money for such a small return.

Isn’t it interesting that Washington, DC, known for its excellent rail service, ranks #3 in costly commutes? I thought that rail would end sprawl and everyone would want to live within 0.5miles of a rail stop. What happened? High real estate values around rail stops is what happened. In suburban areas, people who need the rail can’t afford to live close to the stops, so they buy cars. Atlanta has a nicer rail system than the one proposed here and it ranks #2.

OK, let’s just keep widening I-40. Then we can make the list with the #1 city with a 28 lane highway. Mark it for 2030.

So, for those who actually think the study from a couple of years ago was able to accurately estimate the current and future economy and how it effects ridership, what is the answer? DC and Atlanta might not be great examples, but I don’t see NYC and Chicago on that list. I guess they just got lucky!

Miami is an excellent example of what can happen when a metro area panders to developers and almost completely neglects – or makes a very lame attempt at – mass transit. They have the “Metrorail”, but it only runs north-south for a very short way from South Miami to downtown Miami. It doesn’t even go to world famous Miami Beach or the international airport! Sure enough, it’s on the list! And this area doesn’t really have room for unlimited sprawl as it’s bounded by the ocean and Everglades National Park (although the local government keeps pushing the boundaries into the swamp).

Anywho, for those who think Rail-Can’t-Possibly-Be-the-Answer – what is the answer? If you say busses, prove it! Miami has a mass transit bus service and a dedicated “busway” that picks up where the Metrofail leaves off. The only people I see riding the buses are the maids and nannies who are only riding them because they don’t have a car. Everyone else would rather sit in traffic in their own car and still get there faster than riding the bus.

In any case, I know the answer won’t be an easy one, but I like to hear other ideas and then compare them to areas that have successfully and unsuccessfully employed those ideas. I think that a lot of these “list” articles are pretty bogus most of the time, often only taking into consideration numbers instead of real world scenarios. Just the media providing us with the hype we want to hear instead of the big picture.

Deb,
Those are great points! You brought up an important class issue with mass transit. The assumption is that everyone will ride rail while only blue collar people ride buses. Why is that? I’ve ridden plenty of both and the only differences I’ve seen is that buses sling people around more. The seating and flooring are virtually the same, though some heavy rail systems sport heavy duty carpet.
What IS the problem with buses for the masses? Are they not sexy enough? Would a sexybus be attractive to all types? (One with carpet, video channels, upholstered, comfortable seating???

I think the most important first step is to get all the various parts of our government on the same page. Before we start fixing congestion, downtown planners should stop intentionally creating more.

A few recent examples include: Turning one-way streets back into two-way streets, planning/building roundabouts on Hillsborough Street with the intent to drive 35% of traffic onto Western/Wade. A new suggestion to add more pedestrian-controlled cross-walks on Capital Blvd.

Until planners decide that decreasing congestion is actually a priority, I doubt much will get done.

Another (very politically incorrect) suggestion is to end forced busing/school reassignments. School buses and parents driving kids to far-away schools add a good deal of traffic to the roads every morning, all traveling far further than strictly necessary for education.

The #1 reason for rail over bus is that the trains are not hampered by rain/snow/ice, etc. and #2: whether or not there are bus lanes,the buses get bogged down in city traffic because they use surface roads. Feeders work pretty well i.e. “Park & Ride”.
DC retro-fitted their rail (late’60s-early 70s)to the existing urban sprawl. This was DC’s equivalent of the “Big Dig”. NYC on the other hand,developed their subway system during the 1800′s, and Chicago wasn’t far behind.
Jenna, I love your idea about getting rid of school buses. California did this in the’80s (Proposition 13). Carpools sprang up,& walking & biking became commonplace as a means of getting to school.
The longer we delay in getting a mass transit system, the more expensive & complex it will become. Stations should have been part of the plan for the Convention Center, North Hills, Triangle Town Center, Crabtree & RBC Center, when they were being built.

The whole public transportation debate requires a lot of energy and time… I am a major supporter of public transit, particularly light rail, but I must admit there is a cost associated with it that most people are not willing to accept. Tax increases can only go so far and I am not sure people should rely on them for everything. Public transit is not something North Carolinians are accustomed to and we cannot expect them to get rid of their cars, just because the price of the gasoline has skyrocketed… What is next? Stop eating because the price of the food is about to follow the same direction?

While taking our sweet time is not a good advice, I would wait until the City of Raleigh adopts a plan that shuts down ANY effort to fight high density… All those self-proclaimed community advocates, do more harm than good. Instead of complaining about a building being 20 stories high, they should insist on its form being urban and pedestrian friendly. Instead of complaining about increased traffic, they should realize that the latter is what will make public transportation a more attractive solution. Time wasted in commutes, more than the price of the gasoline, may lead to getting public transportation alternatives faster, in my opinion.

Unfortunately, Raleigh is not designed with public transit in mind. It will take a long time before we create meaningful routes, with high population density and urban form. Capital Blvd will have to be completely redeveloped into an ultra urban road before we see a functional public transit line in place. It is all about the numbers and the destinations that will be connected. TTA’s vision had all the support we could get from the Feds, but it was ill-conceived and received no real support from the municipalities it was meant to connect. We could/should have done a lot more.

Ernest, you’re right that Raleigh is just not structured in a way to really take advantage of light rail right now.

One interesting resource is WalkScore.com. If you check out various Raleigh neighborhoods, you can see that only the downtown corridor is truly “walkable” – meaning that anywhere else light rail wouldn’t be very useful. If you can’t get anywhere once you’ve disembarked the train, what’s the point?

We should absolutely abolish any laws that prevent dense growth, then reevaluate. Until growth patterns change, planners will have a very difficult time figuring out where routes should go, where stops should be, etc.

Jenna,

Thanks for the link. It certainly does give a good picture of how well/badly our neighborhoods do in terms of walkability. Two observations: 1) The maps cannot take in consideration the lack of sidewalks, or other physical “obstacles”. 2) When I lived in New York, I had pretty much the same number of destinations in the vicinity, yet it received 89/100, as opposed to my residence in Raleigh, which got 51/100. I am not sure I can call the scores reliable, but the site is useful, nevertheless.

This topic has become a hot one in several urban forums, so I will try to avoid any repetitions… I think we can safely say that corridors such as Six Forks Rd and Falls of Neuse Rd can get light rail, without many problems. Assuming the city begins to allow additional density, the existing population can support such a system. Also, we will need lines to cover a few East-West corridors. Maybe Spring Forest/Lynn Rd and Strickland Rd can host light rail lines, too. West Raleigh has massive potential, but the population density and destinations need improvement. Hillsborough Str could be a first great example, particularly with all the students in the vicinity.

Like you (Jenna) suggested, the city planners need to reevaluate the corridors and make decisions based on population growth. More important, they can create transitional areas, so we don’t have the usual suspects revolting every time someone dares to propose something above 3 stories. The starting point may be the Riverwalk vision, or at least any redevelopments along that corridor. From Peace Str all the way to Atlantic Ave, Capital Blvd offers a golden opportunity for adding density and mixed use.