Dana,

I’m a little confused by your “sprawl” take. What exactly is your issue with the proposal? Is it the location itself? Would you prefer the Whole Foods be in downtown Raleigh and thus not be part of “Sprawl”. Or is your issue with the design itself. How would you propose the Whole Foods be built so it is not car dependent?

I guess I’m just aksing you to elaborate and what you see as wrong with the proposed plan and what your suggestions would be to improve it.

FWIW, my understanding is the whole foods location will utilize cisterns and other stormwater control devices above and beyond what is required by city ordinances.

^I’m guessing it’s the design, but it’s not much different than 99% of the rest of North Raleigh. *shrug*

A plus is that it will alleviate crowding at the current Whole Foods, hopefully.

Fair questions. This is a plan for a single, large business with no regard to its surrounding context. The plan sits on a large property that was clear-cut before the design phase even began. Its design and location are so difficult to access by pedestrians, that it requires a car for access. The business is a stand-alone entity, with room for maybe 4 very small stores on-site. Of course, that space is on the opposite side of a large parking lot, so customers will rarely park once and shop at multiple stores.
The problems that beset this site have nothing to do with approximation to downtown, but rather with the surrounding 1 mile of development. It is a design almost exactly like we see polluting Capital Blvd’s shoulders. With free land available along the Six Forks Road corridor, Raleigh had the opportunity to make the Six Forks/Strickland area special. Instead they have allowed it to become just another hodgepodge accumulation like we see ruining American suburbs.
When Charles Meeker ran for mayor in 2001, one of his campaign promises was to “curb sprawl” and end clear-cut developments. I don’t consider the expansion of a city into surrounding wilderness necessarily a bad thing, it is the way by which we grow. Since Meeker has taken office, we have seen absolutely ZERO change in the quality of development out Glenwood, Leesville, Six Forks, Falls, and Capital Blvd.
The problem is that Meeker is a Downtownist. By that I mean he and others like him are so obsessed with downtown revitalization, that they completely, and I mean COMPLETELY, turn their backs on the future of the parts of the city where we all really live.
What would I want? How about a property that integrates the nearby office space with stores and residential? Why does this grocer need to sit as a one-story entity? The land between Strickland and I-540 could be a future high-density development. The 1 mile radius from that point needs to be a highly connected network of streets with much retail, office, and residential mixed together. The North Hills area is much more like what I am talking about, however opportunities exist to expose North Hillsl flaws. As the plan stands, the area is poised to be Raleigh’s next blown opportunity.

Great Summary: I agree, HOLE Foods is an overpriced less than “Green” joke. This retail design is pathetic. This design should NEVER have been approved. Let me guess, these mothers who don’t work all day after dropping their kids off at school (with their cell phones in their ears, rolling through stop signs in North Raleigh, will be hanging out at Whole Foods all day – talking until the ozone layer has another hole in it)

Dana,

Amen, brother! We need to build up, not out.

Mixed use would have been the way to go on this parcel of land, which surrounded by neighborhoods. For example, it is just steps from the Emerald Chase and Summerfield neighborhoods. With a pedistrian friendly, mixed use development, folks could walk to nice restaurants, shops, and Whole Foods!

The reason that Whole Foods lacks this vision is that their executive management does not live here. Hence, they have no real interest in the area.

Yeah, I doubt Lex Alexander (founder of Wellspring in Durham) would have gone for this half-hearted effort.

Get over it! North Raleigh is the essence of sprawl. It was designed that way, it was populated by people who don’t dislike sprawl (many even LIKE it), and it will stay that way. Whole Foods is simply building a facility that meets the needs and expectations of their target customer base.

Redesigning North Raleigh is pointless. Because of Falls Lake and the Durham County line, there is relatively little vacant land remaining in North Raleigh to be developed. People who don’t like sprawl should move downtown and quit subjecting North Raleigh residents to your ideas of urban design.

ct: your logic falls apart when I mention the very crowded….North Hills.

Dana,

Thanks for elaborating. I hope I didn’t come off as argumentative. I just wasn’t clear on what you meant. You make some valid points. I understand where you are coming from now. Thanks!

Hey, Mike. Tell me what you really think about “soccer moms”. But don’t bother to say it at Whole Foods….I won’t be there. Anything Whole Foods has can be found @ Fresh Market, Costco, Sam’s Club, or Lowes Foods (and coming soon – Trader Joe’s)for less.

Speaking of that, Kathleen, I am blown away by how much nicer the Fresh Market in North Raleigh is than the one at Cameron Village. I really don’t even mean the new store, either. The old Falls Village store was nicer than the CV branch. I wish that either one were closer to my house. It appears that Harris Teeter will continue to dominate the North Hills area. There are worse things that could happen, I suppose.

Interesting. I moved to North Raleigh from Creedmoor to drive less and use less gas. After living in NYC, Philly and DC, I did not see downtown as a realistic option. Granted this was 10 years ago and downtown is getting better. And I guess the solar panels I am adding to my roof will still not save me from the rath of those urbanites among us who declare themselves to be “greenier than thou.” Does the fact that I am growing nearly 1/2 my salads in my backyard help?

But reading these posts I can see the near foam coming from the “righteous ones” who I assume carpool to work, live where they made sure they can walk for groceries, drive hybrids (if they can bear to drive a car and not just ride their bikes).

I am dissapointed in the design for the new Whole Foods, but in this post you are either “with” the Greens or against them, so Whole Foods must be rightly exposed as the corporate monster it is.

I consider my self lucky to live in a world of color, although a lot of the black/white writing in here makes me jealous. Life made simple.

I agree that Whole Foods could have done a lot better. I would have to disagree that “If Harris Teeter, Food Lion, or a developer such as John Kane planned such a cookie cutter design, they would be lambasted as being backward-thinking, earth-hating, Capitalist pigs.” You might be right about Kane, but no one would even notice if Harris-Teeter or Food Lion built another stand alone store, unless you lived in the area it was coming to. That is business as usual.

I have to also disagree with “Anything Whole Foods has can be found @ Fresh Market, Costco, Sam’s Club, or Lowes Foods (and coming soon – Trader Joe’s)for less.” I do not like shopping at Whole Foods, but try finding a good selection humanely raised meats at the other stores. Really, only Fresh Market comes close to selection of local, hearty, or natural foods.

What about the Farmers Markets for “local, hearty or natural foods”? Also breads, cheeses, jams, etc. and don’t forget the plants so that you can grow your own.

True, you do not need Whole Foods for any of those. Some times I really do want a good humanely raised piece of meat. I think you can get some sausage that meets that requirement at the Farmer’s Market, but Whole Foods is the closest, otherwise.

I am happy about Whole Foods coming to North Raleigh, but when I saw the site plan I wanted to scream!!! Let’s hope that the city leaders do not allow this crap to go forward. There are better ways to do this, and I am sure Whole Foods will not mind a better site plan.

If anything, they should have thought about people farther north in Wake County/Franklin county. Wake Forest has HT and Lowes but a Fresh Market or Such would have been nice. But I do agree with Kathleen that HT and Lowes etc have all the ‘premium’ products that the High end stores do so why bother going to Whole Foods or Fresh Market unless you want to feel the “glam” of it.

I like Whole Foods for the purpose it serves (supplements my groceries with some interesting and high quality items), but I hate that they’re all far away from my area (NW Raleigh). This will help. Plain and simple. I’d love it if downtown Raleigh would put in a Whole Foods or Trader Joe’s into the first floor of some new tall building, but let’s face it, this isn’t going to happen. Raleigh is king of suburban sprawl and strip malls. It’s the residents, not the developer.

As Raleigh grows, we will all see the continued urbanization of the older suburban areas as is the case with North Hills. Raleigh is being hemmed in by surrounding burbs that will force Raleigh to rethink its past in order to continue growing. Areas in Raleigh that have already been targetted for such growth are North Hills and Crabtree. However, I can easily imagine more of these areas emerging over time. The crossroads of Six Forks and Strickland is one of the places that I suspect will see a North Hills type redevelopment in its future.
As for Whole Foods, they could have been more sensitive to land use. One can make the argument that they aren’t necessarily contributing to sprawl because that location/ intersection is already highly developed. But, they could have made better use of the land by consolidating their parking and building together. An example of this is the Publix Supermarket in South Beach. While it’s still accessed by car by a majority of its shoppers, the garage is built on top of the store and the entire building is clad in a modern skin that provides architectural interest to the neighborhood while providing its immediate neighbors with a walkable grocery experience. http://www.keeneconstruction.com/projects/projectfiles/91200611831_Publix_on_the_Bay_front.JPG
The building sits right at the sidewalk and the entire site including parking is probably not much bigger than the footprint of a large Harris Teeter store.
It’s a shame that Whole Foods didn’t have the vision to do something like that instead. But, like others have said, it’s a publicly traded company that has to please Wall St. And, as long as land is cheaper than building garages, surface lots will rule the day. It’s only going to be when the city is hemmed in and traffic becomes horrendous that suburban areas will begin to see this sort of more eco-friendly uses of land.

Fresh Market has NOTHING on the quality of whole foods and definitely not Costco or HT or Trader Joes. I am glad that the Wade Ave. WF will not have as much traffic once this opens up, but I doubt I will even live here at that time. Whole Foods is by far the best grocery store (and not priced that much different) than any other store in this area. If it wasn’t for whole foods, I’d be mad at the grocery opens here.

I’m not sure I understand. Is this a swipe at sprawl, or Whole Foods? I ask, because I don’t see this kind of post every time a new Harris Teeter is built.

If sprawl is the complaint, target it at city planners and the people who approved the plan. Complain about the people who allowed a store on Strickland to be “in town” for the majority of its patrons.

They’re not John Kane, buying up huge swaths of land in Raleigh. Say they build this “walkable” store with deck parking. They’re surrounded by office buildings with seas of parking lots, and no public transit – other than a connector route vaguely nearby. What could they accomplish? Other than spending a huge amount of money to build a smart-growth area in a sprawl based town.

Hey, I hate sprawl and hate car culture. I just think you’re targeting your complaints at the wrong people. Then again, people seem lined up to take swipes at them lately.

I like that they keep questionable ingredients out of my food – http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/products/quality-standards.php (see links on the right), and like that they pay their employees a living wage. I am willing and capable of paying more for these things.

I look forward to it opening. You’ll occasionally see me stopping by on my bicycle to pick up dinner on the way home from work.

True, Jeff, but I don’t see Harris Teeter and Food Lion beating their chest that they are nature’s best friend. One of Whole Foods’ chief bullet points in their mission statement is: “Caring About Our Communities & Our Environment”. They talk the talk like they are a cut above everyone else, but when it comes time to select sites and execute their business, they come up with horrible designs like this that are no better than anything on Capital Blvd. I like the store, but the attitude and hypocrisy oozing out of the company is just too much. With this plan, they now stand as one of the contributors to North Raleigh’s mess.

I went into Whole Paycheck for the first time a few weeks ago. I can’t afford it.

I’m glad we are using vacant space in the case of Whole Foods, Costco, NH development. I’m not an engineer, and cannot recognize the traffic or other issues, however, if these businesses were not totally car-accessible, they wouldn’t get the business. We all use cars and use them a lot, and that is our own fault. Frankly, I think we like sprawl for the most part.

Saying that North Hills is North Raleigh is irrelevant. Everyone agrees that high density is appropriate along I-440. Even the Soleil tower, right? We’re talking about a Whole Foods location that is 5 miles from North Hills… or to look at it differently, North Hills is halfway from the Whole Foods in question to the State Capitol.

Besides, I could argue that North Hills really isn’t North Raleigh anymore. It was 25 years ago. Even the News & Observer has defined the I-440 arc from Glenwood to US 1 as Midtown.

Dana, did newraleigh.com hijack your blog site? Please stick to critiquing dentistry, hopefully you have more expertise in that field than you do in land planning. Seriously, your ranting about this Whole Foods project is beneath you and your usually positive postings.

Since you have a degree in economics why don’t you explain the dire need and importance of the new tax dollars Whole Foods will be paying to our City and State? Do something positive.

CT,

Your conclusions are based on a false premise: Sprawl is a sustainable lifestyle choice. It clearly is not. Sprawl is not sustainable. Sprawl requires:

– Excessive use of every more scarce, ever more expensive fossil fuels

– Clear cutting of our environment, which contributes to ever higher CO2 levels.

– Longer commute times

– Non optimal use of land

At some point, the costs of sprawl — land costs, fuel costs, time costs — will force denser, more efficient development. Obviously, in North Raleigh, we are not at this point yet. But at some point, we will be.

I love American car culture more than most people. I loved tooling around in my red Mustang as a teenager. Unfortunately, that lifestyle will not be sustainable in the future.

At some point, smart growth, pedestrian friendly growth will make sense.

Amazed and Bewildered, Capital Blvd is the result of “professionals”. I don’t know anyone who says they like Capital Blvd, and I certainly don’t know anyone who takes out-of-town guests down that street to show off what Raleigh has to offer. Do we want Six Forks to emulate that road? I don’t think so, but with the presence of I-540 and the Cyprus, the “Six Forks” area is poised to boom.

Wanna talk about Economics? It is painfully obvious what is going on with the Whole Foods plan. The owner of the land is getting pressure to move from the bank, and a very short-sighted plan is in place. It happens all of the time, and it is the reason that land values and ease of living are much higher inside the beltline than in North Raleigh.

In the meantime, you might find a more effective handle by visiting my newest website: http://www.banamazing.com.

ct, gotta say that NH is entirely relevant. In my world, North Hills is the outskirts of town. High density is appropriate along I-440? It never was before, and it wasn’t developed that way. That’s why we took a 40 year old mall that was a perfectly find structure and threw it into the landfill. Why not make the Six Forks area right from the start? With I-540 in place, the area will boom and become a huge retail center for RTP commuters who don’t feel like going all the way downtown.

Keep this in mind: Lenox Square is as far from downtown Atlanta as the Six Forks are from downtown Raleigh. We will keep growing, that is a fact. We just don’t want to keep dooming ourselves to the same mistakes.

FWIW, I actually attended several of the North Raleigh Citizen Advisory Council meetings where the developer and whole foods solicited input on their proposal to have the property rezoned. For those of you who may not know this, that land was doomed to be developed one way or the other. It was already zoned and poised to be developed into another faceless office/medical facility. Like the plan or not, I’ll take Whole Foods over another empty office building.

I do appreciate comments on how people think that area of N. Raleigh should be redeveloped. I’m sure Raleigh City Council will welcome your millions in investments to do it. What are you waiting for?

Oh nonsense, now we’ve changed the argument about development patterns in North Raleigh into a conglomeration of climatology, ecology, distributive theology, etc. The ancient Greeks knew that tactic of debate quite well.

Outside Meekerville, suburban development will continue in south Wake, east Wake, southeast Durham, Johnston, Granville, and Chatham. No anti-sprawl arguments will stop that. Along I-540, the property in question on Strickland is one of the last major parcels in an area that the city had marked for intense retail (i.e. low-rise) development years ago. Even the 2030 development plan maintains that approach… and since this area drains into the Falls Lake watershed, this particular parcel will be the last one developed for SC or O&I.

As for Buckhead… I lived just off Peachtree for 15 years. Lenox started very much the way that NH did here; so did the neighborhoods around Lenox. 25 years from now, NH will look a lot like Lenox did in 1990.

The only way change will come to suburban parts of Raleigh is if those who live there raise their voices loudly and often.
Even ITB has to fight suburban type development. Just look at the new McDonald’s on the corner of Peace and N. Boylan. There’s nothing urban about it even though it’s in Glenwood South and the city’s own neighborhood guidelines require it to be an urban model.
Until
You gotta fight for your right to party….err…I mean. You gotta fight for your neighborhood.

CT,

Nobody changed the argument.

You wrote: “Get over it! North Raleigh is the essence of sprawl. It was designed that way, it was populated by people who don’t dislike sprawl (many even LIKE it), and it will stay that way.”

I did not change your argument. I simply answered it: “Your conclusions are based on a false premise: Sprawl is a sustainable lifestyle choice. It clearly is not. Sprawl is not sustainable.”