http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2011/07/06/a-better-rail-plan/ The Latest in Retail, Entertainment, and Development in Raleigh Mon, 24 Aug 2015 02:32:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3

http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2011/07/06/a-better-rail-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-65896 Carnell Brame Thu, 07 Jul 2011 20:28:00 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/?p=5970#comment-65896 Good job of pointing out some of the shortfalls of the existing plans. What I'd like to see in general is the demand of points of interests from different parts of the city. Clearly RTP and Downtown are huge magnets for transportation choices because of employment. But where do all these people come from. Another piece that is unclear is the convention and visitor market. Connecting RDU, RBC Center, the convention center, hotels, entertainment and other attractions is important, but how important? The Atlanta Regional Commission uses Transportation Analysis Zones to determine travel demand. RTP is low density. RDU is not on an existing railway. RBC is isolated. Downtown needs more housing and commercial retail. Connecting these while working on these shortfalls seems like the most logical starting point. As a slightly related side-thought, a more robust express and shuttle bus network would also be a good idea for an area.

Good job of pointing out some of the shortfalls of the existing plans. What I’d like to see in general is the demand of points of interests from different parts of the city. Clearly RTP and Downtown are huge magnets for transportation choices because of employment. But where do all these people come from. Another piece that is unclear is the convention and visitor market. Connecting RDU, RBC Center, the convention center, hotels, entertainment and other attractions is important, but how important? The Atlanta Regional Commission uses Transportation Analysis Zones to determine travel demand.

RTP is low density. RDU is not on an existing railway. RBC is isolated. Downtown needs more housing and commercial retail. Connecting these while working on these shortfalls seems like the most logical starting point.

As a slightly related side-thought, a more robust express and shuttle bus network would also be a good idea for an area.

http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2011/07/06/a-better-rail-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-65895 OTB & Lovin' it Thu, 07 Jul 2011 20:13:00 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/?p=5970#comment-65895 Relying on Gov workers for the initial start-up, turns this into a M-F, 7-7 plan. Evenings/Weekends is essential to boost ridership & lower costs. The State Fairgounds should be in the first stage of development. Park & Ride is not available for all events. Using 17.5% (same used to guesstimate Gov. workers usage) the State Fair alone could generate 175,000+ riders.

Relying on Gov workers for the initial start-up, turns this into a M-F, 7-7 plan. Evenings/Weekends is essential to boost ridership & lower costs. The State Fairgounds should be in the first stage of development. Park & Ride is not available for all events. Using 17.5% (same used to guesstimate Gov. workers usage) the State Fair alone could generate 175,000+ riders.

http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2011/07/06/a-better-rail-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-65893 Jeff Snavely Thu, 07 Jul 2011 18:09:00 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/?p=5970#comment-65893 Oh here we go again.... another suburbanite arguing that the train should carry him to his once-a-month venues.

Oh here we go again…. another suburbanite arguing that the train should carry him to his once-a-month venues.

http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2011/07/06/a-better-rail-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-65883 Anonymous Thu, 07 Jul 2011 14:38:00 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/?p=5970#comment-65883 Pungentodor - The green line (E/W) proceeds thru Cary more as a matter of convenience to get near RDU and into RTP. This has been part of the TTA plan since Day One because there is an existing rail corridor there. Access to Wake Medical Center and venturing into East Raleigh will require the acquisition of expensive land and removal of many buildings, so it will be a vastly more expensive proposition than extending to RTP, the area's biggest employment center. While my plan does only get 2 blocks farther into East Raleigh, I think that accessing Moore Square Station is FAR superior access to East Raleigh than merely getting to the Capitol.

Pungentodor – The green line (E/W) proceeds thru Cary more as a matter of convenience to get near RDU and into RTP. This has been part of the TTA plan since Day One because there is an existing rail corridor there. Access to Wake Medical Center and venturing into East Raleigh will require the acquisition of expensive land and removal of many buildings, so it will be a vastly more expensive proposition than extending to RTP, the area’s biggest employment center.

While my plan does only get 2 blocks farther into East Raleigh, I think that accessing Moore Square Station is FAR superior access to East Raleigh than merely getting to the Capitol.

http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2011/07/06/a-better-rail-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-65882 Pungentodor Thu, 07 Jul 2011 13:49:00 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/?p=5970#comment-65882 I agree with many aspects of your plan particularly the yellow and green lines, but your plan doesn't serve east raleigh any better than the d6a plan. Why not extend the green line to wakemed instead of into cary. Personally I think that a lot of planning's problem is price. In order for a transit system to work it needs to be comprehensive, it needs a lot of coverage both of place and time and in order for that to be put into place we're going to have to pay. I imagine eventually we're going to get one or two lines arranged based mostly on cost and then a lack of ridership will can further expansion.

I agree with many aspects of your plan particularly the yellow and green lines, but your plan doesn’t serve east raleigh any better than the d6a plan. Why not extend the green line to wakemed instead of into cary.

Personally I think that a lot of planning’s problem is price. In order for a transit system to work it needs to be comprehensive, it needs a lot of coverage both of place and time and in order for that to be put into place we’re going to have to pay. I imagine eventually we’re going to get one or two lines arranged based mostly on cost and then a lack of ridership will can further expansion.

http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2011/07/06/a-better-rail-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-65881 Anonymous Thu, 07 Jul 2011 12:34:00 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/?p=5970#comment-65881 vvvv, you are right. RTP commuters will be more likely to buy into the proposed system if they see my Red Line on the horizon. Jasdelaney, good point. The laughable 14,000 riders a day (which is actually only 7K unique people) figures that got the old plan tossed were based on the strategy of serving RTP, and the state govt workers are clearly the focus of the newly recommended plan. While it serves almost all of the downtown state govt workers within a couple of blocks, my plan serves them within 6 or so blocks, which is as good or better than the average current parking deck assignment. I think it is more important to sacrifice some convenience for state govt workers in order to offer FAR better development potential for the area between Glenwood South and Capital Blvd, the Convention Center, and Moore Square bus terminal, while avoiding the entanglement of traffic at 8 instead of 34 intersections.

vvvv, you are right. RTP commuters will be more likely to buy into the proposed system if they see my Red Line on the horizon.

Jasdelaney, good point. The laughable 14,000 riders a day (which is actually only 7K unique people) figures that got the old plan tossed were based on the strategy of serving RTP, and the state govt workers are clearly the focus of the newly recommended plan. While it serves almost all of the downtown state govt workers within a couple of blocks, my plan serves them within 6 or so blocks, which is as good or better than the average current parking deck assignment.

I think it is more important to sacrifice some convenience for state govt workers in order to offer FAR better development potential for the area between Glenwood South and Capital Blvd, the Convention Center, and Moore Square bus terminal, while avoiding the entanglement of traffic at 8 instead of 34 intersections.

http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2011/07/06/a-better-rail-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-65880 jasdelaney Thu, 07 Jul 2011 10:56:00 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/?p=5970#comment-65880 People do need to appreciate that this is only the first step in a much bigger plan for public transit. The city/county see this phase as the most difficult to sell to the public, where some remain skeptical about whether we even need to spend any money on public (rail) transit. Their expectation is that once light rail is operating, the next phase will be an easier sell, involving real "streetcars" entering the city from all directions. Whether this is the right strategy is questionable, but this phase is built on getting government workers in and out of downtown. Not because it makes the best sense to start with this group of passengers, but because of the numbers involved. Concern about ridership numbers was the reason rail plans were scuttled years ago, and ridership for 40K government commuters is easier to predict. It's a very political issue at this stage, and all about getting the public to support the initial funding. I believe that if we can get rail transit going, privately funded transit oriented development will drive the next critical wave of the city's redevelopment of it's urban centers.

People do need to appreciate that this is only the first step in a much bigger plan for public transit. The city/county see this phase as the most difficult to sell to the public, where some remain skeptical about whether we even need to spend any money on public (rail) transit. Their expectation is that once light rail is operating, the next phase will be an easier sell, involving real “streetcars” entering the city from all directions.

Whether this is the right strategy is questionable, but this phase is built on getting government workers in and out of downtown. Not because it makes the best sense to start with this group of passengers, but because of the numbers involved. Concern about ridership numbers was the reason rail plans were scuttled years ago, and ridership for 40K government commuters is easier to predict. It’s a very political issue at this stage, and all about getting the public to support the initial funding. I believe that if we can get rail transit going, privately funded transit oriented development will drive the next critical wave of the city’s redevelopment of it’s urban centers.

http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2011/07/06/a-better-rail-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-65879 Anonymous Thu, 07 Jul 2011 10:38:00 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/?p=5970#comment-65879 Hardly any North Raleigh residents who work in RTP will be willing to pass through downtown on their way to and from work -- whether it's light rail, a bus, or a magic carpet. Doesn't matter how expensive gas gets; most of the jobs in RTP are upper five figures or six figure jobs. They'll buy gas at any price. Why? Mass-transit commuters into RTP would face a time-consuming trip because RTP's deliberate low density requires a shuttle bus at the RTP end. Adding another 20-30 minutes of trip time by passing through downtown is a non-starter.

Hardly any North Raleigh residents who work in RTP will be willing to pass through downtown on their way to and from work — whether it’s light rail, a bus, or a magic carpet. Doesn’t matter how expensive gas gets; most of the jobs in RTP are upper five figures or six figure jobs. They’ll buy gas at any price. Why? Mass-transit commuters into RTP would face a time-consuming trip because RTP’s deliberate low density requires a shuttle bus at the RTP end. Adding another 20-30 minutes of trip time by passing through downtown is a non-starter.